UB Anniversary ReVisit: James Mtume Talks Catalog + Lends Advice

Over the next year, we’ll be spotlighting features from our e-zines from the last 25 years. T M H Entertainment, T M Hxone and Urban Bridgez.

As the longest running website for R&B online, since 1999 – We’ve been able to conduct some amazing interviews with R&B Royalty, as well Hip Hop Legends.

UB has also been blessed to speak with some of black cultures, biggest icons, in film, television and literature.

Today we celebrate the late great James Mtume, on the 40th Anniversary of “You, Me and He.” UB spoke to the legend about his catalog and so much more!

Born and raised in Philadelphia, James Mtume earned musical fame, starting in jazz with greats such as Miles Davis during the early 1970’s as well as with father, saxophonist Jimmy Heath.

Years later, Mtume teamed up with fellow songwriter/producer Reggie Lucas, producing hits for Roberta Flack & Donny Hathaway (“The Closer I Get To You”, “Back Together Again”), Phyllis Hyman (“You Know How To Love Me) and Stephanie Mills (the Grammy winning “Never Knew Love Like This Before”).

As a writing and producing team, the Mtume/Lucas collaboration yielded nearly a dozen gold and platinum records. In 1978, Flack’s “Blue Light In The Basement” LP reached platinum status on the strength of the single “The Closer I Get To You.” The O’Jays’ “Identify Yourself” also went platinum. Mtume co-produced gold discs for Phyllis Hyman, Stephanie Mills and Flack and Donny Hathaway.

Mtume’s self-named group was established in 1981 with the album “Kiss This World Goodbye,” which was followed by ”ln Search Of The Rainbow Seekers.” But it was the record-breaking title track from the group’s third LP, “Juicy Fruit” that brought the group international acclaim and its first gold record.

Collectively the group Mtume yielded 11 charting singles and earned critical acclaim with hits, “Juicy Fruit,” a #1 R&B chart-topper for eight weeks, and Billboard’s Hot 100 at #45 as well as being Certified Gold.

Mtume followed it with the release of “You, Me and He,” forty years ago today on July 27th, 1984. An occasionally rocking album that more often capitalizes on “Juicy Fruits’ ” seductive grooves. The nucleus of Mtume’s group includes Mtume on lead vocals and keyboards, bassist Raymond Johnson, keyboardist Phillip Fields and vocalist Tawatha. “You, Me and He,” reached #2 on the Billboard R&B chart.

Mtume was another representative of a most welcome group on the street/pop scene — players with jazz backgrounds who appreciate popular music and can temper their own training while upgrading the quality of commercial music. Quincy Jones and Herbie Hancock were the most visible examples of the trend, but Mtume forged his own unique blend of funk and jazz on “You, Me and He.”

Sax solos on the cuts “You Me and He” and “To Be Or Not To Bop” (The title of Dizzy Gillespie’s autobiography) are provided by ace reedman Sonny Fortune, and the solos, though thoroughly modal, fit perfectly in the innately danceable tunes. It was only a matter of time before increasingly sophisticated audiences got hip to the limitless boundaries of certain jazz elements which do fit in dance music and Mtume paved the way.

He adopted a term dear to the hearts of jazzers for his own sound, dubbing it “sophisti-funk.” “What I’m interested in doing now is re-introducing some of the aspects of the jazz world that could be so helpful in the contemporary popular music world. See, a pop cat can’t play with that kind of restraint and understanding. That’s not a condemnation. It’s just, here’s a guy (Fortune) who’s played all his life. We came in the studio. I played it down once or twice. What I wanted was a feeling of alienation and distance, but like a beauty that you couldn’t touch, and that’s what I got. And 1 could only get that from that kind of situation.”

With jazz players, Mtume felt, “you’re bringing in another intelligence. That’s what I’m beginning to do. On each album, now, on the last cut on side B, I’m going to have a song that begins to lead into the ideas that I have in terms of fusing the two worlds.” Mtume’s contribution was “To Be Or Not To Bop.” “. . . that is the question, whether we funk or not,” as Mtume stated. “And that’s fusing hip-hop culture with be-bop. We’re bringing that kind of thing into focus. On the next album there’s a thing called “E-volution,” and it’s gonna be a combination of African culture and jazz and funk.”

Mtume was not one to sit around after finishing one project. “Herbie and I had about a three-hour conversation, because he and I may be doing some production on Miles’ next record. Miles had called me, and to me, there’d be no greater pleasure than to put him right back in the thick of things again. You know, you never lose contact with the people who were important to your instruction and development. Obviously, that’s where I got my Ph.D, that’s what I tell people. They say, ’Where’d you go to school?’ and I say “Miles Davis University.” Mtume believed in transferring that education. Aside from being in demand by other artists as a producer, Mtume was one of the most sought after music lecturers in the industry.

His classic, “Juicy Fruit” is found liberally used by artists like The Notorious B.I.G. and Keyshia Cole. It continues to find a new generation as it now circulates through video games like Grand Theft Auto: Vice City, while the group’s track “C.O.D. (I’ll Deliver)” off the You, Me and He album was featured in the video game Grand Theft Auto IV.

Mtume’s later credits include co-producing Mary J. Blige‘s Share My World and K-Ci and Jo-Jo’s Love Always in 1997. He rounded out 1994-1999 with TV’s New York Undercover. There his compelling musical themes masterfully assembled generations of artists at the show’s featured nightclub, Natalie‘s.

Last year, the legend was honored with a street bearing his name in his hometown of Philadelphia, PA. It can be found at the 1500 block of Wharton Street in South Philadelphia.

Aries from UB spoke with the legendary James Mutme in 2020 about his amazing career, his involvement with New York Undercover, his classic Juicy Fruit and filming Unsung.

Mtume also gives advice to younger artists and gives us his thoughts on the current state of R&B.

Plus Mutme talks about “You, Me and He,” celebrating it’s 40th anniversary today.

UrbanBridgez.com: New York Undercover was actually one of my favorite shows when I was younger. A lot of people don’t know your involvement in it.
Mtume: Right, I was the musical composer for that show. I did all of the music for all of the seasons. We call it scoring, chase scenes, love scenes, suspense. I was actually the only black composure doing a dramatic TV series. They had black composure’s for television, but they were doing comedies. This dramatic series captured that spirit in New York man. With Black and Latino leads, that was unheard of. When I was composing it, I created this little special segment called Natalie’s. A club where I could bring in young artists and have them redo a classic. Like Mary J. Blige did Natural Woman and Xscape did All This Love. So when I brought in a classic artist, I would have them do one of their hits. Like BB King did The Thrill is Gone. So it was a great experience. As a matter of fact, out of everything that I’ve been fortunate to be connected with, New York Undercover is the most special for me. Because it gave me the opportunity, to put a black sound on television. In a way that it had never been done. I wanted to make sure that if you watched that show, you couldn’t watch without listening to the music.

UrbanBridgez.com: Exactly! It was such a dope concept. Your production to me was kind of ahead of your time. With like Juicy Fruit alone. How did you come up with ideas for production back then?
Mtume: That’s a great question brother. One of the incredible lessons I learned standing next to Miles Davis. Was always push the boundaries and when you’re hearing something new reach for it. When you hear new sounds in your head, you’re quite not sure what it is. You just know where it is know what I mean and you have to go down there and find it. So I would say that is a very interesting point that you raise, among my peers when I was coming up. I started hearing the combination of drum machines and synthesizers. Probably before most kats that came out of R&B, Jazz and Funk. By the time Juicy Fruit came up, nobody had ever done anything like that before. I’m not bragging, I’m just saying.

UrbanBridgez.com: Exactly, all facts.
Mtume: I thought it was flowing and it worked out. That’s something you don’t know when you’re trying to something new. People may not feel it the way I felt it, but fortunately they did. Once Biggie sampled it, it propelled our music into the next generation. Now we’re like three generations deep with that beat.

UrbanBridgez.com: What do you think it is about that production that makes people still interested, no matter who samples it or how they use it?
Mtume: I think the combination of that beat and the incredible performance by Tawatha Agee singing the lead. It touched people where they live, in the heart. Here’s an interesting side-bar; when I took Juicy Fruit to the record label, they didn’t want to release it. I had to really fight. So they was like we’ll release it to the quiet storm after midnight hours. What happened after the first week brother they were getting so many calls from program directors. They were forced to release the record as a whole, including play during the day. They were really forced. When we talk about Juicy Fruit, that record was really almost never heard.

UrbanBridgez.com: Jumping to another classic of yours, You, Me and He. My mother use to wear that out! That is such a great song.
Mtume: Thank you. You, Me and He was deep, because I flipped the narrative. In the love triangle, you always hear the brother like oh baby I’m in love with the secretary. You never hear it from a woman’s point of view. So I wrote it to be from a females point of view. There’s another in my life. He’s my lover and I’m your wife. You, me and he, what we gonna do, baby? (laughs) So yeah that’s what that one was about.

UrbanBridgez.com: Was there anything that wasn’t covered with your Unsung, that you wanted included?
Mtume: You know what, that’s a great question. Let me start off by saying this, I had turned Unsung down for six years. I just didn’t really want to do it. The reason why I didn’t was because I just felt that there were so many people that I admire. That I felt were way more deserving than me. I’m not trying to sound corny or humble, but that’s the truth. So my son was like look dad you have to stop it. You could miss the opportunity and all that information would be lost. So I decided to do it and Unsung told me that it wasn’t just about the music. They pitched it more like a biopic. To cover everything from growing up, to being a black political host, the whole thing. They cover New York Undercover, etc. So I was quite pleased, because they never did an Unsung the way they did mine.

UrbanBridgez.com: Well much deserved! You did need one that was original, because you’re an original artist.
Mtume: Thank you man.

UrbanBridgez.com: I love the work you did with Mary J. Blige on Share My World and with K-Ci and JoJo. What was it like working with those artist, being apart of the new generation?
Mtume: Oh man, thank you so much. Working with the younger artists…it’s funny because I’m saying they’re the younger artists but now they’re the elders of the new generation. One the the things that ran through all of the young artists that I worked with. They were all extremely hard working and I’m going to point them out. Mary J. Blige, K-Ci and D’Angelo were the hardest working out of everybody man. A lot of people realized that there was really a role for producing vocals after they did New York Undercover. It’s like a lost art now. Producing vocals is like an art. You have to guide the artist voice to their highest potential. A lot of people do records and just let the artists go in and sing you know. You have to guide them.

UrbanBridgez.com: Speaking of that sort of thing, what do you think is missing from today’s R&B?
Mtume: I think I would have to answer it this way. There isn’t enough originality now. It’s too many copy cats today. It’s like they’ll sound like the artist that came out the week before. Copying someone else’s style will get you there. But being an original, keeps you there. I see a lot of black artists, being reduced to hit records without hit careers. They have one or two hits and they’re gone. Careers are based on longevity.

UrbanBridgez.com: Who are some of your current favorite artists that you enjoy?
Mtume: I enjoy SZA, the one I enjoy the most is J. Cole. I also love Kendrick Lamar. One of the things I find interesting about these rappers. Is an interesting syndrome is happening, a lot of them are being produced by Hip Hop jazz artists. Like Kendrick with Terrace Martin. Robert Glasper is another one, where there is a new sound coming out of Hip Hop. Original music is being created. I see a lot of rappers when they perform, have a live band as well.

UrbanBridgez.com: You worked with some jazz greats from Miles Davis to Dizzy Gillespie, can you just tell us any story you want about working with one of them?
Mtume: Okay, of course the greatest story I can tell is Miles Davis. I remember for me personally, it was my first tour with him. I took a solo when we were in Europe. And the joint went crazy! So we’re walking off stage and I’m kind of feeling myself, I’m a young buck. He walked up behind me and said man that ain’t nothing. My little balloon got popped, I’m like what? He said man, stop playing what you know. Start playing what you don’t know. What he meant by that was stop playing stuff that you know works. Find a different avenue to go down to get to your destination. Miles was incredible, he was my mentor man. One of the things about jazz musicians, you can’t step on a jazz stage and not know your craft. You can’t think, you gotta know. I’ve always respected that about the art-form of bebop and jazz. They say you can’t fake the funk, well you really can’t fake being jazzy. You’ll get embarrassed too quick (laughs).

UrbanBridgez.com: What does Black Music mean to you?
Mtume: It’s the greatest resource we have, is black music. Our music has gotten us through, every troubling time. It’s our thermometer, it tells us what the temperature is in our community.

UrbanBridgez.com: What advice do you give to this new generation of artists?
Mtume: What I would like to say to any young artist. The most important thing you want to do, is to find your own voice. Find your own path, that’s the only way you can extend your career. Also master the electronics don’t totally depend on them, don’t let them master you.

UrbanBridgez.com: Any last words for your fans?
Mtume: The biggest lesson I’ve learned being a jazz musician. I was able to translate that into R&B, Funk and Pop. Greatest thing you can be is yourself, because everybody else is already taken. Be you and follow your heart.

Take A Trip Down Memory Lane with Mutme!